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Thoro-Graph
Seeing some tweets that the track has not been watered yet today.
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TreadHead
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ESPN personalities redboard "$20 pick4s"? News to me
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JB I know you do not delete posts, but could we at least capture nominations for (most annoying) performance in a post and have an awards banquet at the end of the year?
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First of all, this thread is not meant to pass judgement on whether or not it is OK to whip a horse 30 times, not trying to go there at all. This thread is whether or not horses who are significantly talented and have never been whipped, then suddenly are whipped extensive, backup more than normal in their next race.
Just read the Steve Haskin article where he asserts that AP was never whippe
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How can you even ask that question? Moop beat a bunch of turf bred slugs over in Dubai, he needed to win that race by 20 for it to be impressive.
Frammento could beat a bunch of Beulah Park (RIP) stakes horses by 10 lengths and I'm sure it would look equally impressive as he completely draws away from them in the stretch. That doesn't mean that he stacks up well against the top 3 y
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Would you consider Del Mar for him after that? Their sprints are all 5F and you are destined to get the firmer going he seems to like
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I must admit tossing Private Zone due to drinking the "super testing" koolaid, and that decision cost me plenty in rolling pick3s.
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Did this quickly so apologize for any data errors, but went back 8 years (to make sure I included Big Brown) and I'm counting 22 horses than ran a negative number at some point prior to the derby. 3 won, 2 finished in the tri, and 17 finished outside the tri.
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TreadHead
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Doesnt explain the other scratches.
I heard stalls 1 and 2 open, not 1 and 20
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The Power Alert figures have got to be the most laughable thing I have ever seen in my life. what a clusterF
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Of note today are Dortmund doing a final quarter in 22.3 and Moop supposedly getting his final quarter in 23 (it was not timed by clockers, but by computer equipment the stable uses).
I really wanted to hate Moop given the no lasix and the continental travel, but after seeing his fig, this nice workout (if he truly came home that well), and running style relative to the field, it is getting ha
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Just wanted to point out, last year's wood had huge winds in it too, and although Verrazano was obviously not himself on Derby Day, given he came back and ran a -4 later that summer and the graded placings/wins NI and Vyjack had later, numbers given that day seem to have held up pretty well.
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TreadHead
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Sorry if I missed this if it was previously discussed, but Pegasus Red AQU R7 today should be the dictionary definition of a "move up" trainer.
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View Race Details 5/1/2015 2015 Kentucky Oaks (G1) 1 1/8 m, Dirt; 3 F
Horse
Trainer
Status
Posted By
Luminance B. Baffert Probable Paladin
Puca W. Mott Probable Paladin
Lovely Maria J. Jones Probable Paladin
Include Betty T. Proctor Probable Paladin
Shook Up S. Asmussen Probable Paladin
Stellar Wind J. Sadler Probable Paladin
Eskenformoney T. Pletcher Probable Paladin
Ekati's
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TreadHead
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Any word on the estimated date of the surgery? The workout notes I get show him still being noticeably noisy (and only 2 star workouts) on his 3/6 and 3/20 PMM works.
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Verrazano's -4 was at MTH after a -2 at GP earlier that year, so this is what Jim is talking about I think. The data is all over the place.
What I'm more interested in is if on-track observers at GP noticed something "different" about the GP surface this year that might make comparisons to prior years not very wise.
I only get anecdotal data from what I read 'cap
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TreadHead
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I hope this wasn't meant to be the beginning of another California figures debate. Lord Nelson and Kobe's Back performances yesterday seem to add yet more evidence that the figures are plenty accurate.
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May sound crazy, but if thundershowers train thru there like it looks like they might over the next 36 hours, including during racing tomorrow, I have to think there is a chance they wont race or wont get the whole card in Friday. I had taken off work weeks ago to attend from out of town and gave up on any hope of going today when looking at the forecast details.
There is no possible way that
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TreadHead
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I can hardly wait until after the race and we are told to toss the FG horses for the 3rd year in a row!
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But if you listened to Roger Stein this morning, you would hear that he told the stewards the exact opposite, and they open admitted it played into their decision.
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Rain has started back up, several tweets indicating R1 and R3 likely to be taken off the turf, but no formal projection of turf course rating.
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Just gonna point out that Mott did win a stakes race with a shipper on the undercard. Might be dangerous to make a blanket statement/assertion just because he made a couple mistakes over the last 2 years.
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TreadHead
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You may need to have a talk with Bruno.
He debated me on Twitter earlier this year as to whether a drier track always meant a faster track. I directed him here to read up the study and then never heard back from him.
Certainly there are many occasions where drier does equal faster, but you cant possibly say that is always true and you need look no further than the beach for that evidence
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TreadHead
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Funny how when you try to identify who the "class" horses are and are not prior to the race instead of after it, it looks like a questionable discussion topic, to put it politely.
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I've read multiple comments that state this simply isn't the case on the turf. Several riders commented that the course seems to have normal give/bounce to it and they really aren't getting why there are so many incidents on the turf. The basically equal number of occurrences on the poly definitely makes this a much greyer area of discussion, poly didn't go from being relati
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Numbers do not trump bad workouts except in very rare circumstances, but who you get the "bad" info from is the key here.
Did you really just quote Maggie Wolfendale as though she is an expert on workouts to the point that you should toss a horse if she says something slightly negative? I need a 15 min break to laugh, brb.
OK, I'm back.
As with the Derby, the problem
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WOW, apparently he is doubling down on interviews today. On Good Morning America this morning, he compared it (rested horses taking on his horse) to playing basketball against kids in a wheelchair.
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The owner WAS wrong and his complaint completely illogical.
He was beaten by Medal Count, who DID race in the Derby and was also running in his 4 stakes race in the last 9 weeks, just like Chorme was. And they finished behind him.
So regardless of whether or not you are arguing that you need the Derby points to be in the Belmont or that other horses needed to have the same difficult, tig
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