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Thoro-Graph
bbb,
you realize you will not win this argument? LOL
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Other room. Upstart post 4-21-15. 7:38 a.m.
(racemaven)
The article credits Jerry Brown with convincing Win Star to make this purchase. See Vito, you and Jerry do have something in common...Upstart!
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You blew it TGJB.
How many guys could actually say they got their a@@ whipped by Tony Soprano in real life? That's folklore man!!
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I think in the last 15 years, Bennie Woolley is tied with Pletcher in Derby wins, in the last 15 years Woolley has more Derby wins that Baffert and D. Wayne combined.
They'll win some again, if they ever get some good stock.
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I think the time is secondary to the way the race was run. Slow fractions and Mub was just off the pace, the Derby will be way faster. If they force the horse (if he can) closer to the pace, what does he have left when they get to the stretch?
American Pharoah cruised in by a wide margin and nobody knows how much faster he might have come home had a horse been 1/4 length off and pushing. Fast
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Mike Smith orders two copies of the DVD. One for him, one for Hollendorfer.
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TGJB,
I took a quick look at the last 5 Derbys and the 6 bearing in or out is about in line with most years.
Chrome and Bode each had a bo or bi line. Shackleford ran very well and he had 2 heading into the Derby.
The numbers, and I went up a dead end, were:
2014 7
2013 8
2012 4
2011 5
2010 7
Those numbers of starters either bore in or out during their 3 y.o. campaign.
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Yes, yes, yes. You are exactly right Rich!!
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Not educating anyone johnny, its in the sheets. If I had to guess I would say El Kabeir.
Mr. Z has been non-stop for almost a year, every time he pokes his nose out the top part of the stall door, Lukas tacks him up and runs him.
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6 of the 20 head have either bore in or bore out in at least 1 of their last 2 races.
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Last I heard Johnny Weir was in charge of pat-downs and bag inspection
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The last thing miff needs is me or anyone to defend his stated views.
You just insulted one of the room's top guys as well as one of the most respected posters on the board. Try not to get personal because some of these dudes will verbally put a knot on your head.
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We need to drop the weight question cause miff already weighed in.
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I held my breath for a second cause I wasn't sure who you were replying to. LOL
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A couple weeks ago I watched the simulated "Aerial View" that you can click on.
From the 1600 Meter point, which is 300 meters from the finish line, this dude explodes like Big Brown running past Gayego in the Preakness.
No question in the Dubai race, Mub had run 1:39.61 which puts him probably 12-15 lengths off a "normal Derby run mile."
I can give you the difference
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Papa,
I see Tencendur as a horse that's had a lot of stuff thrown at him in his career. 5 straight routes, 4 different jockeys, now blinkers for two straight, moving from inner surface to regular surface, 3 off track races. Since they added the hood he works quicker in 4 of the 5 workouts.
Eventually they may find this horses' comfort zone and then see where he goes from there.
Mayb
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Heading into the Derby, when was the last time we had a horse run 3 straight negative numbers in his 3 year old season and remain 20/1 in the Morning Line.
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joe,
10/1 is a sign of respect, but at the end of the day you look at Mub's sheet and you see 8-10 head faster, and a few a lot faster.
If they'll let him saunter along at 25.50 or a 26 second quarter, he's gonna come a running. I don't think we've seen that type of quarter in the Derby.
He trains without horse shoes, he doesn't have the diet that he's been
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pizza,
Not my intention to sell or sway anyone on any horse in the race. I was just trying to find some info on how DeKock's horses shipped to the states, if they used Lasix, if they ran on dirt, and how they ran.
I think too many unknowns with the horse, and I would play more dough on the horse if he were 20/1+, the morning line of about 10/1 is no value with this group of bears to run a
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I don't have enough database to give a very good answer, but found some data that could be researched to see if horses ran tops or paired.
DeKock has had some runners. Most of us older guys remember Horse Chestnut winner of 10 of 11 career and 6 straight World Cups.
He also trained Asiatic Boy who won the Summer Cup 6 times.
Victory Moon was another who ran in 2009 in the Stephen Foster
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HP,
Agree with the early portion of your post. Your post was on the board for over an hour before the first guy tackled it. Its the type of subject where you can really get your ass handed to you by the crowd, because its all just opinions in a 20 horse field.
I also agree a guy can toss a lot of coin at this thing and either have a helluva hit or really get pasted because of the quality of d
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I won't disagree sek. I don't see Firing Line trying to go the front cause there's too many fast ones, but I know Stevens won't turn down a good early position if things are clean coming out of the gate.
The start is so chaotic that just obtaining a decent/good spot in the run up to the turn is a big advantage for most of the field.
I don't know if Smith tried to sen
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I agree. I think an unfavorable post forces the hand on the early speed types.
I can't imagine rounding the turn with Dortmund on the inside, Pharoah in the middle and Firing Line 3 wide. Followed by Upstart, Materiality, Bolo just a length behind them. That's an awful lot of young talent facing each other in a fairly small space.
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If Ocho Ocho Ocho goes wire to wire in this field, I'm gonna need a paper shredder. With equal posts, I see at least 7-8 horses that will outrun him to the turn.
In looking at the last 10 Derby races, there's not much to glean. I do notice that Kent D has shipped near the front twice with Brown and Stormello, not in the lead but within the top 4 at the turn.
Martin Garcia shipped
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HP,
I'll chime in.
Pletcher with JR in the Derby 3-0-0-0 back to 2010, I think.
Devil May Care from GP
Verrazano from AQU
Intense Holiday from FG
Hope I didn't miss one.
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Either would be a great choice. Is Joe Bravo named? Pletcher might have liked the way he rode Danza last year in the Arkansas and Kentucky Derby.
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I'm watching this one from ringside and my scorecard has TGJB up 5 rounds to 4 in a hotly contested debate. We just moved into the "he said, he said" portion of the bout but emotions are still held in check.
It's been an entertaining exchange of opinions, but it lacks the vitriol and contempt of the recent TGJB/Rags exchange.
Miff seemed to be tiring late in this bout, but
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Thunder Gulch at 4.00
Real Quiet at 5.33
Charismatic at 5.72 in the 90's.
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